Curse

Sciros Darkblade · Oct 12, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I am not sure if anyone has initiated such a thing before, but YES I am creating such a list on another website (my OWN site; which I am not plugging or anything, not even including a link to it until I think it's ready for launch).

Anyway, I am compiling a blacklist of scammers, so that there WILL be names to refer to (so that future scams by these people are prevented).

So, I am asking people here, who have been scammed, to EMAIL me with the scammer's name and as much relevant evidence as you can provide (screenshots are best). If I get enough reports from various people (and feel that the evidence is convincing, possibly doing some extra research of my own on the accused), I will add his/her name and a description onto the Blacklist.

If you try to frame someone as being a Scammer, you are doing so at a great risk. I am a Photoshop pro, and I will analyze every screenshot so thoroughly that you'd be an idiot to send me a doctored one. If I find out that you are trying to frame someone, your ass is going on the Blacklist in their stead, with a very clear description of what you do.

Once the list is long enough, I will publish it (but with no links from Guru, so that Guru maintains the "no names" policy, which I will respect).

Thanks.
-- Sciros

By the way the Blacklist is part of a larger site I am working on, which I will later show to the moderators to get a feel for what they think of it and whether it should be linked to from Guru or not.

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

i think this has a huge potential for abuse, and in general isnt a very good idea since no scam can 'force' you to give away your __

Frost_ · Oct 12, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

your so stupid dont get scamed its not hard

Midnight Slayer · Oct 12, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

this thread is pointless.

people create characters just to scam, so they can delete them anytime...
if you have a brain you wouldnt fall for scams.

Sciros Darkblade · Oct 12, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Guys you are all missing the point. There are repeated-abuse scammers all over the place, and we all know it. If their characters find their way onto a list that people can refer to, it creates an inconvenience for them, which although mild may keep them from taking that easy 60,000p they're considering. This list has some potential to be a deterrent, or at least I am hoping it does.

If you have nothing better to add than "if you're scammed then you're stupid," I ask you not to reply to me in this thread because honestly I don't want to hear it. This thread is not directed at you, and I sincerely disrespect your hate for those who get scammed.

Also, a lot of people DO NOT create characters just to scam. Some players may, but trust me, many don't.

Also, if you think that this list has a huge potential for abuse, then consider the fact that I am putting a lot of control on who can get on it. Granted, this means that I have full freedom to do with it what I please, it would be self-defeating if I abused it myself. After all, I have a reputation to uphold, and Sciros Darkblade is my only character ^^.

Ollj · Oct 12, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

i would be more interested in a "scammed players" list, just for a laught!

Bugeater · Oct 12, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Unless you're talking about Running scams: runner bails out after payment before delivery or passenger bails out after arrival.

There's really no sure-fire way to prevent those. Sure you can do partial payment part-way through the run, but that only cuts down on the risk.

As a runner, I'm certainly not going to check the site for 5 names everytime I do a run. Besides, chances are the scammer got blacklisted for the Drok's run anyway, so won't be a passenger on another Drok's run. And as a passenger I might check the site, but the number of Drok's scammers who can make it through Lornar's Pass is pretty low. I don't remember ever hearing about someone paying at Snake Dance and the runner leaving.

Long story short(ish): maybe a good idea, but not worth anyone's time.

Slimcea · Oct 12, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Say what you want about carelessness of the people who are being scammed (or scammees if you wish), but in a scam, the fault is entirely the scammers, since each trade is made in good faith.

I'd support such a site, but you may want to consider implementation details thoroughly though. At the very least, screenshots whereby the scammer admits his scam would be required so that accusations would at least hold some weight. Also, you need to consider the situation whereby a scammer recreates all his characters, or someone creates a new character with the same name as the scammer (unlikely, but the possibility exists).

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

so are you actually suggesting that before each trade, i search your scammer database with the name of the guy im trading with, just to make sure my wood planks get a safe trip...?

for someone thats already lazy this is really pushing it

The New Guy · Oct 12, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frost_

your so stupid dont get scamed its not hard

pff!! You're calling him stupid when you can't even spell right and write a proper sentence??

fergburger · Oct 12, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The New Guy

pff!! You're calling him stupid when you can't even spell correctly, nor write a proper sentence?

Fixed; grammar counts too ya know.

Xonic · Oct 12, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

it won't work. because:

random_sammer_074: "oh, I am listed on the blacklist. time to creat a new character with a new name"

honest_trader_1623: "could you hold the trade for 10 mins when I alt-tab out, hop onto the scammer black list site and search to check your name is not there?"

Sciros Darkblade · Oct 12, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Of course, accusations cannot be made lightly, and evidence, possibly along with multiple unrelated accusations of the same person, will be needed before I investigate the accused.

This is not a list that will have random one-time offenders unless the evidence is really overwhelming.

If a scammer deletes his character, and tries to scam with a new one, he does avoid being referenced by the Blacklist. Obviously. However, until all scammers start doing this, it's not a defeating issue.

Slimcea, innocent people creating new characters would be wise to check the Blacklist before they create a name that is the same (or REALLY similar).

Smurfhunter, yes ^^ I am actually suggesting that in a big trade, you consider checking the Blacklist to make sure the player you're trading with is not on it. It's not a resource made for people so lazy they don't care enough about their own platinums to make use of it.

Bugeater, I think people that don't pay for a run are small fries compared to those who steal 200,000 gold at a time from people. If someone repeatedly dodges paying for 100k runs, then not only is a LOT of evidence necessary to incriminate the player, but it's also not something that most people would care about... Basically, this Blacklist is mostly intended for people that flat-out steal stuff through the trade dialogue, as well as others who consistently make the game experience much worse for others.

Note that I play enough on my own to be able to compile *some* sort of list of such players, but not enough to make a published list of them worth referencing by others really.
_____

Edit: some "scammers" MAY create a new character for the purposes of scamming, but many may well be deterred from scamming in the first place. As inefficient a justice system as it is, many minor scammers may not want to appear on the blacklist, especially if they put effort into their characters.

Also, it should NOT take 10 minutes to search the Blacklist. It's alphabetical, and should take all but 30 seconds to search through at most. I don't expect the list to be ENORMOUS, considering that it is not trivial to get on.

However, players who consciously watch for scammers and gather evidence if they notice they're dealing with one, may be able to add a name to the list if their information is sufficient.

Also, I'm NOT asking for your expert assessment of whether this list will work at all or not. I'm not here for a debate. This thread is SPECIFICALLY asking those who GET sufficient information on a scammer to provide ME with it so that I can add it to a particular list. If you don't have this information, please move along.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 12, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

there is no need for a scammer list as you can only be scammed by accepting a trade before looking. anet already has a reporting system, just use that. theres nothing a user can submit to you that they cant submit to anet, and anet has the final word. trying to bypass an already in place system by creating a new one is futile.

im not personally attacking you, im not flaming, im not trolling. im just stating my opinion. if you wish for me to not post then do it in a private forum please and thank you.

Sciros Darkblade · Oct 12, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Hanuman Li Tosh, ANet's system is good and I am not trying to bypass it or make anything redundant. However, I know of a number of scammers who people complain about frequently and yet ArenaNet has taken no action (possibly because no evidence in the form of screenshots has been taken). I suppose such scammers are just those that I know of through my own game playing. In any case, perhaps the list is not necessary, and if enough people here completely don't want one, then I won't have it. It is for you guys, after all.

Some people are not happy with ArenaNet's system, even though I think it does work about as well as could be expected. I am trying to make a companion, not a replacement. Anyway, we'll see how my attempt goes. If it goes nowhere, then that's that ^^

Sanji · Oct 12, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Most people who would actively look at a Scammer Blacklist are probably attentive and careful enough not to fall for scams in the first place. The people who would need it the most would probably never know or even bother to look for such a thing.

Not to mention, the two Guild Wars forums I go to, GW Guru and The Guild Hall, tend not to endorse Blacklist threads or sites.

Sciros Darkblade · Oct 12, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

You have a good point there Sanji... perhaps the Blacklist is for an audience that would never be wise enough to use it in the first place. Considering that, perhaps I will scrap the idea altogether. Not sure yet...

Kazahana · Oct 13, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

does noone reallize you can delete a character and change names anytime you want? so a list of names would be worthless.

chaos dragoon · Oct 13, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

i think what he is trying to do instead of sending it to anet so they can get a warning is screw them out of the rest of their game like they deserve.